The Lilac Pilgrim – Yet Another Blog

Posts Tagged ‘fangirls

After a good long thought about this, I felt I had to continue to express my own feelings towards the whole Sexy Joker thing.

Someone once said to me in response that if Danny DeVito played the Joker, we wouldn’t be arguing about the sexiness of the Joker. No, no we wouldn’t. And do you know why? You wouldn’t fancy the purple pants off the psychotic killer clown.

You just wouldn’t. DeVito is incredibly talented, I agree. But he’s not really a “Joker” type, is he? Therefore, you’d probably be more disgusted than entranced. If you did happen to be entranced, I’d still be urging an answer as to why the hell you’d fancy someone who would much rather close the sofa bed with you still in it rather than make love to you on it. Why would you? My whole problem isn’t that you like Heath Ledger, because that I could understand, despite the fact that I didn’t find him attractive. My problem is that some really rabid fangirls continually make excuses for The Joker to show affection, therefore ruining his characterisation. The Joker did NOT show love towards Rachel – HE THREW HER OUT OF A BLOODY WINDOW! THEN he blew her up! He was going to cut her face up, just like he did to Gambol.

So tell me again where the love is? Because the only part of the film he seems to show any emotional dependence on anyone is when he tells Batman: “You complete me.”

I think I’ve done enough Harley Quinn promotion, too.

So there you go. If needs be, I’ll be back with another one of these. And now, The Joker gets his own category. I hope you’re satisfied.

First go to this post from where a post of mine has been linked: The Joker’s Virtual Harem

Firstly, I am kind of flattered that my comments actually got to someone badly enough that my blog now features on another blog. That’s something.

Secondly, I feel I’m being badly misrepresented here. I don’t hate the fangirls – I can’t, I don’t know them. I just don’t want to have to wade through horrific self-insertion Mary Sue based fiction involving bad characterisations of the Joker which “borrow” heavily from the film itself playing out deranged fantasies I don’t need to hear about, just to get to some good fan fiction. I know some original characters are well-written; the majority of these are not. At least if I should ever feel the need to write self-insert fiction descriing my wildest fantasies about whoever I might be into I keep it to myself on my own hard drive or in a hand written diary, rather than clogging up the servers on FanFiction dot net with whatever crap needed to spill out of my head for my own sanity.

Thank you, goodnight!

~The Lilac Pilgrim

As I expected, I got a LOT of backlash on that post. Surprisingly enough I got very little defence. My point, ladies, was that I don’t care if these girls have self-insert fiction (whether or not they admit that it is), really BAD fiction deserves to be kept secret. I’m sick of stories where “ZOMG! HE STOLEDED A SKOOLBUS DEN TIED MI 2 GASOLEEEEEN! LOLOL!”>_<

I’m going to take the comments I got and go through them, but first I want to make one thing clear: I have nothing against romance. Romance is fine. I’m aware that the Joker has a girl in canon – Harley Quinn (whom I love to bits). But she’s his only girl, and he has tried multiple times to kill her because he can’t handle such human feelings. He’s made her into a constellation, he tied her to a rocket, he was going to shoot her, he’s kicked her out of windows, he tortures her, pushes her around, hurts her, and this is all in the name of love. And very dangerous love, I might add.

On to the comments, now.

Brie said:
Hmm, I agree on the ‘not being able to change him’ part.
Nut that’s the point of fanfiction.
It’s fiction written by a fan.
If they want to make him mushy and vulnerable, that’s fine…it’s their choice because they’re writing it.

Fair points, I agree, but The Joker just isn’t vulnerable. As per my post “Hush: Chapter Seven: Just TOO Dark?” vulnerable!Joker is just a big NO. The Joker always puts up a fight and has fun with everything. When Rachel was ready to fight for her life, The Joker was ready to fight to take it from her. He’s not a vulnerable man. He’s manipulative, sneaky and vile; he is only ever mushy about Harley, and she’s not even safe from him.

In “The Killing Joke”, The Joker serves as an unreliable narrator in his flashbacks – he remembers a wife, Jeannie, with whom he was completely in love, and he lost her to a household accident. However he later confesses that he sometimes remembers what happened to him one way and sometimes another, and he’s comfortable with that. This means that possibly the Joker suffers from false memories – and so Jeannie may never have existed!

And sure, The Joker has gone through thousands of characterisations, but remind me; which one was vulnerable? Exclude Hush – we’ve been through that. It’s a little contradictory that you say “I agree on not being able to change him” and then defend the fangirls for doing exactly that.

I’m all for OCs, I’m even fine with self-inserts – but the majority are not well-written, especially within The Dark Knight fan-fiction. And that sours me towards the experience. Look at the following excerpt from an honest-to-goodness Joker/OC fan fiction, about a vampire who falls in love with, well… who else?:

“Shit she took some crack heads blood, that was high now she it too.”

“Huh crack where give me some!”

I started to jump up and down like an excited puppy.

“No you are going to bed now.”

He tossed me over his shoulder and carried me away to never never land. Hehe I would finally get to meet Peter Pan and the notorious Captain Hook and his weird beard. I felt myself be put into a bed. I was still giggling. I got quiet and went to sleep. I awoke to the sun coming in through the crack. It was very little but still. I sat up and realized that I was in my bed with Jokester. He was facing away from me. I went to climb over him to get out but he grabbed me and now I was lying on top of him.

I… I have no words here. What could make anyone think that this is okay? This story has good reviews, too. A lot of this story carries on in the same vein (no pun intended) as the above, with a lot of really odd (understatement) happenings and the Joker being incredibly OOC. It’s not fun or cute; it’s annoying, and the only reason stories like this get good reviews is because girls want to imagine that they are the Mary-Sue/self-insert.

Moving on:

Kat said:
“…I don’t entirely know what the appeal is, but I don’t see any harm in it. Beyond writing some fanfiction of questionable quality, it’s not hurting anyone. There’s a big difference between developing a crush on a fictional character who kills people and a man on death row who has killed people…”

I didn’t say it was harmful, but I’d like to be able to find a GOOD The Dark Knight fiction without being bombarded by “questionable” fan fiction about how much some crazy girl wants to boink The Joker.

Agreed on the big difference part, but some of these girls really don’t seem to know the difference. I have known girls to say “I know >real-life murderer whose name escapes me< is evil, but he’s kind of cute in a weird way… is that wrong?” Yes, really.

“..Also, the dude clearly has ISSUES. Young girls love a broken man with emotional problems. They like the idea of being the one to give him a hug and ease the pain. Some women do too. Heck, some men are also all about crazy ladies who will bring them nothing but grief…”

It doesn’t matter whether they are real or fictional, chances are neither are going to be magically cured of their issues with a hug and some hot chocolate. I admit to being the kind of woman who is attracted to a man with issues. But I’m attracted to psychology. I don’t want to hug the guy better, I want to analyse him. I want to take care of him, sure, but getting to the root of the problem solves much more than a teddy bear can. As a fictional character, The Joker completely fascinates me. There’s so much there that is carried forward onto the next incarnation, so much psychology within a character who murders for laughs. But I’m not sexually attracted to him. I’m not physically attracted. His mind gets me; the madness behind the method. And it infuriates me to no end when that psychology is destroyed. He’s suddeny got purpose, and it’s a pathetic one. He’s suddenly a simpering mess, no longer the Harlequin Of Hate. It gets to me.

“I say let them have their wicked way with him in the fanfiction world.”

I say so too – just keep it the hell outta my way.

And finally:

gypsywitchbarbara said:
“alright, “and here we…go!” Now im a grown up, hardly a teenage, who now has the most inspiring ( im a graphic novel author artist) the most erotic and the most downright obsessive crush on ledger’s joker.”

No offence, because you seem lovely, but age does not a grown-up make.

“Amidst drooling over the characters poweful alpa male agressive ness i noticed a real reason for ladies to fuel the female sexy joker fantasy with this particlar character in this particular movie. the scean where joker taunts and circles rachel at bruce waynes fundraiser,joker tell the story of his wife and how he loved her so damned much he sllced his own face to prove his wifes horrable disfigurement did not change his feelings for her. So ledger’s joker would have sex with you and quite possably might marry you. why not he did it once before? And he didnt kill his wife. So in context with the dark knight movie itself and direct dialouge from Ledger’s jokers character now you have a concreat foundation for female infatuation with this character. “

Grammar and spelling aside, there’s a lot wrong with the above paragraph.

The Joker actually had little aggression in The Dark Knight. Alpha-male type aggression is top-dog, obvious, Schwarzenegger-type aggression. The Joker is, for the most part, passive-aggressive, which is very different. Yes he’s the top, but in a sneaky fashion. He gets into the minds of those he gets to assist him (the schizophrenic Arkham inmate Thomas Schiff, for example), he completely twists people into becoming his little guinea pigs/minions. I mean, he doesn’t go on an all-out kill spree; each killing is calculated (Misters Harvey and Dent are examples).

As per “but he loved his wife!!!!!”, well… I’ve made the point already but it’s worth going through again. The Joker recounted a different story as well; that his father cut his mother up and then sliced the young Joker’s mouth open. It’s possible that when he was to tell Batman the story, it would have been another false memory. Maybe the Joker’s a compulsive liar? We don’t know, we probably never will.

He told Rachel she was beautiful – then proceeded to throw her out of a window. Oh yeah, really loving character you got there. While it’s possible that the Joker has been in love in the Nolanverse – accept that this Joker is not the same Joker as in the comics or earlier movies or TV shows – it’s also completely possible that he’s never been in love. And if he has, he was in love before he went stark-raving bonkers. It might never happen for him again.

(Note: “female” infatuation? Gay guys might like the Joker too…)

Ledger’s Joker was wonderful. I loved every minute. But I did not fall in love with him. I fail to see the attraction, I completely cannot see it. His mind is only on chaos – he’s positively obsessed with trying to prove that everyone has their dark side. He is completely enamoured with anarchy and disorder, he wants to see Gotham fall into a fit of violence and desperation. He is extremely intelligent and very manipulative. But a lover he isn’t. He didn’t have a girlfriend in the film, the only woman he targeted was Rachel and he tried to kill her twice in one scene, he didn’t angst over the wife he may have made up in his mind, so where is this sensitive!Joker coming from?

At the end of the day, by all means write your fictions, draw your art but please make it bearable at least. Especially in your fiction, because if I have to read another sickening “I’M THE JOKER I’M INSANE MWAHAHA I KILL YOU NOW PRETTY GIRL ONOZ I LOVE YOU” story I swear to whatever is up there I’ll be another step closer to putting smiles on a lot of people’s faces.

Now all I gotta do is wait for more people to contradict me :S It seems to happen a lot where Heath Ledger’s (and strangely only Heath Ledger’s) Joker is concerned.

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  • HoistTheColours: Dear author, I full-heartedly and absolutely agree with your above statements. I just thought I would let you know, since I don't quite understand w
  • richclark: I covered this in my blog too. Found your post on one of Wordpress' random (associated posts). Has Ask really made the impact it needed to from
  • The Lilac Pilgrim: I couldn't go anywhere without someone mentioning it. It was incredibly obvious and yet people were still arguing about it. Absolutely ridiculous.